Integrity, passion, joy. . .in sales? How?
Live online chat with John Livesay
November 3, 2003

John Livesay has been selling in the advertising and computer industries for over 20 years. He is currently the West Coast Ad Director for W magazine. His clients include: Jaguar, Lexus, Infiniti, Gap, Banana Republic, Guess and Nike. Prior to W, he worked at Elle, Self and US magazines. He has written a book, “The Seven Powerful Selling Secrets: Closing the Deal with Integrity, Passion and Joy” that will be coming out later this year.

John’s comments came during a live spirituality.com Online Event on November 3, 2003. He was responding to questions from the audience. Following is a transcript of the discussion:

Spirituality.com Host: Welcome everyone and thanks to John for joining us today. Before we get to the questions John, are there any opening thoughts you want to share?

John: It is a pleasure to be here with everyone today. I am excited to talk about how to incorporate spirituality into selling. All of us have to sell ourselves all the time whether our job description says we are in sales or not. If you want a job, a promotion, a raise, you have to sell yourself. I will not only share secrets of how to sell yourself, but how to feel good about yourself while you are selling.

Joy75: How do you count “success” in sales?

John: The traditional way of counting success in sales is if you made your quota. I have found that it is just the beginning of feeling successful in selling. I think the ideal way is—Do you feel happy about the deal you made and does your customer/buyer feel happy about the deal they received? When it is a win-win situation, I feel successful. When there is a way to incorporate joy in the process—so the buyer wants to buy from me again—then I feel really successful.

Ot: How do you keep focused on your sales goal and at the people you are serving simultaneously? Does spirituality help with this and how?

John: Spirituality helps tremendously. This is a 2-part answer. 1) 20% of your clients give you 80% of the business, so write down the top 10 clients/accounts and make sure you are doing something for them every week. 2) From a spiritual standpoint, the self-talk we do, the thoughts we say to ourselves, the meditation, prayer or whatever you call it, helps us stay focused. That is how spirituality impacts selling. If you think sales come from sources expected and unexpected then that will be your reality.

KRISTEN_C: How did you initially get the idea to write this book?

John: The name of the book is “The Seven Most Powerful Selling Secrets: Soar Your Way to Success with Integrity, Passion and Joy.” What I realized was that there are many great books on selling and I read them all when I started in sales. I was afraid someone would tap me on the shoulder and say I didn't know what I was doing. After a while I had the selling down and became a spiritual seeker at night and on the weekends. I read things like “The Power of Now” and “The Four Agreements.” I had a thought that was, “What if I started to incorporate my spiritual seeking into my selling. Would it work?” I found when I took something as simple as one of the four agreements—Don't take things personally—and applied it when I didn't make a sale, it helped. I didn't take it personally. As I did that more and more over the 10 years, I tripled my sales.

I realized there is no book like this. There are great books on spirituality, and great books on sales…but not a book that incorporates both. I integrated the two and decided to help people get off the sales self-esteem roller coaster.

The roller coaster, “I feel great about myself when numbers are up and bad when they are down.” If you let sales determine your self-esteem you can go up and down the roller coaster 10 times a day. This book is written to show you how to keep your self-esteem consistent whether you get the sale or not.

Ginzo: How do you sell something without a buyer feeling pushed?

John: There are several ways to sell something and incorporate spirituality into it. The first step is to create rapport. You have to have compassion for the buyer. Is the buyer under pressure or overwhelmed? If you can get the buyer to think of you as a co-pilot…that is the best way to start the relationship. Another big way is to do your homework and know your client, their competitors and market yourself as a partner. This will put them at ease more.

AA: John, do you have a spiritual routine or habit that you do everyday?

John: Yes, I do! I write down five things that I am grateful for from the day before. I find it a great way to start the day by looking back and reflecting on the good. I also meditate daily and read something even if it is just two paragraphs that is spiritually inspiring!

Rudy: I was in sales but I took the rejection side of things so personally. How do you handle it?

John: The concept of rejection is something we have to deal with whether we are in sales or not. One of the secrets is accepting yourself first and you won't be seeking it from anyone else. Also I realize that when someone says “no” it could mean no for right now, not forever.

Bethie: What are your criteria for deciding when to pursue “a tough nut to crack” customer and when to write them off as a potential customer?

John: That is a great question! One of the challenges for anyone in sales is to manage your time—so that you focus on your best prospects. If I see a potential advertiser, in this case, running in magazines I compete with, I know they have a huge potential. So that is my first criteria. 1) Do they have money? 2) Is what I have to offer valuable to them? And if I believe it in my heart I trust that instinct to continue the relationship.

At “W” Magazine, it took me five years to convince the people at Nike to advertise. They had many objections such as the age of our reader, the cost of our ads, etc. But I believed that what we had to offer was worth the higher price and our readers were influential, regardless of age. What happened was, Nike expanded their criteria to happen to fit those who read “W.” So after five years we were able to get them. So that is how you decide if something is worth pursuing. If you really believe it in your heart and there is potential, you can get a really big account like that.

Max: How do you handle the emphasis that seems to be put on the bottom line…profit? The CFO pressures the VP Sales, pressures the Sales Managers, pressures the salesman.

John: Boy that whole concept of pressure is so important to address. In nature you don't pressure something to happen before it is supposed to happen. For example, you plant a seed and you let it grow. If you start digging it up to see if it is growing, it will never work. This is where faith and trust come in. If you can convince management that you are doing everything possible to produce the results they need, that will help them relax and trust that you know what you are doing.

There are three things to make sure you manage not to have pressure in:

1. Don't pressure yourself so much. Be motivated from a place of service as opposed to a place of fear.

2. Give your management a sense of trust so they don't pressure you.

3. Make sure the buyer doesn't feel your pressure. No one wants to buy under pressure. No one wants to sell under pressure.

So we have to show that results can come when we are motivated by our passion of who we are, the belief in our product, and our faith it will work out.

Lassie: Do you have to like the product you are trying to sell?

John: For me, it is imperative. I have a personal passion for photography. I take pictures as a hobby and collect them as an art form. “W” magazine hires renowned photographers such as Bruce Weber and Richard Avedon. So when the new issue comes out every month I have the same excitement I had as a child when it was my birthday. I can't wait to show the advertisers the beautiful and artistic photography in the magazine. For me I am able to integrate my personal passion for photography into what I am selling. That, to me, is integrity, passion and joy.

KRISTEN_C: Even after writing the book, do you sometimes have to remind yourself NOT to get on the roller coaster?

John: Yes!!! That is why I am now giving talks based on the book. We often teach what we need to learn most ourselves. One of the secrets in the book is that our experience is the sum total of all our thoughts. So during the process of writing the book, I was spending many hours focusing on the truth of who we all are, i.e. unlimited expressions of God, that our work is Love made visible, and that who we are is so much bigger than anything we create in the material world. That is what made my sales soar. Now I do interviews like this and give talks on the book, so that the sum total of my thoughts are what I want to experience. Remember you don't have to be perfect to be successful. Just start thinking positive thoughts 51% of the time. Then increase it to 60%, 70%, etc.

Dmc: How do you pray about your success?

John: Again I think it is important to define for yourself what success is. To me, it is much more than just achieving my quota or making money. That is an outcome of being centered. One of the favorite thoughts I like to remind myself is, “How can I be of service today?” One of the secrets is, “Love yourself, love what you do, and let others show their love to you.” Sometimes the way others show their love to you is in the form of a smile, and sometimes in the form of a sale.

Derby: How do you handle fear?

John: Fear is the opposite of love. We can realize when a buyer gives us an objection, such as the price is too high or they need to think about it, what is really going on in the spiritual level is that the buyer is afraid of making the wrong decision. If you, as the seller, are afraid of objections, then what is happening is that fear is meeting fear and that creates a big stalemate. So the incentive to get rid of the fear is so you can help the buyer get rid of theirs. So, one of the best ways to get rid of fear is to be of service to others.

Canuck: If you’ve been away from your clients for awhile, how do you re-introduce yourself? I am in the services business (consulting) and feel that my contacts have gone ‘cold’—what should I do?

John: The first thing I would like to suggest is that, with email, it is a lot easier to stay in touch with clients if you don't have to see them face-to-face. One of my favorite ways of keeping in touch with people is to send them articles that relate to their industry, to give them information that might make them better at their business or job. If I read about someone's promotion I will call or email to congratulate them. The thought I have about reconnecting with a client is to think of them as an old friend you haven't seen for a while. For example, “We have been out of touch lately and I miss you! What is new in your world and is there anything I can do to make your job easier? Any challenges you are facing?” etc.

1030: What do you mean about the new paradigm being about connecting rather than closing in sales?

John: The old paradigm of sales training is “ABC…always be closing.” My suggestion for a new paradigm is “always be connected.” And a new acronym—ABK-- Always be kind. Let's look at what those two things are.

Always be connected to yourself, who you are—in other words, be grounded. This allows you to then be connected to the buyer and their needs. Always be kind. Be kind to the way you talk to yourself. Be kind to the people you work with. Be kind to your buyer. That is a completely different mindset than always trying to think of ways to close them, manipulate them, and control them. With all the recent scandals from Enron to WorldCom, this is the new way of how to incorporate kindness into your selling. Being nice will no longer be seen as being weak. Maslow said, “If the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, you tend to go around looking for a lot of nails to hit.”

One of the secrets in my book gives you a new tool for closing - the tool of silence. For example, if you are trying to sell a home and you ask the buyer, “Do you want to buy this house?” The buyer is quiet thinking about it. You as the seller, get uncomfortable with the silence and say, “If I throw the refrigerator in, will you buy it then?” You have missed the opportunity for the buyer to say yes! So the way to become comfortable with the silence in the room is to learn to quiet the thoughts in your head through meditation, prayer, or affirmation. Here is an affirmation to say to yourself while you wait for the buyer to say yes or no—“I am patient and calm.” Do that three times and that will give you an extra 10 seconds of silence. In the Olympics, 10 seconds is the difference between first and last place. You now have a new tool to use and a new paradigm of ABK.

Cheeky: What inspires you to be ethical and moral and more spiritual when it’s often easier to not be?

John: My inspiration comes from wanting to make a difference in the world. There are so many things that we have the choice to take the easy route. For example, one of the ways to love ourselves is to exercise and eat right. We have a choice to do that or not, every day. The easy route might be saying you are too tired or don't feel like it. The same applies when it comes to ethics. Let me walk you through how your thoughts become your reality. Your thoughts create your beliefs. Your beliefs create your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your character. And your character becomes your reality. So, lets have the thought, “I am an honest person.” You think it enough about yourself and you will believe it. Then when you have an opportunity to steal something, you don't. You take the action that is honest. Take enough actions often enough, they become your habit. You are habitually honest. That becomes the fabric of your character. I define character as what you do when no one is looking. So let’s say you could steal something and get away with it, but you don’t—that is your character. The same is true of kindness. Are you only kind when someone is looking or are you kind all the time? Finally your character becomes your reality. The world treats you as you treat the world. You lose your wallet. What do you know…someone returns it with all the money in it.

Oklra: What is the most important quality in being a good salesman?

John: I would say, what is the most important quality in being a good human being? For me, my definition of integrity includes honesty, commitment to doing what I say I will do, and being as authentic as I can. In ALL situations!

Max: Do you have mentors?

John: My current mentor is a woman named Alyce Alston, the publisher of “W” Magazine. She leads us by inspiration and kindness every day. One of the things she did at a recent sales meeting was to set aside time for us to volunteer as a group at an organization that delivers food to people who are homeless or sick.

Another huge mentor for me is Tim Sanders, the author of “Love is the Killer App.” If you go to my website, http://www.johnlivesay.com, you can find a link to Tim's website. He talks about how to bring passion and kindness into the workplace. I highly encourage you to buy and read his book. If you are interested in ordering my book on my website, there is an order form from the publisher that will allow you 20% off and free shipping.

Spirituality.com Host: We are almost out of time John and there are so many good ideas here but we do need to close. Any ideas to leave us with?

John: If you were told that $86,400 would be deposited into your bank account every day, and your only responsibility in order to keep the money coming is to spend it all wisely by midnight, or it would all be gone, you would gladly do so…right? Well 86,400 is exactly the number of seconds we are given every day. We have the freedom to choose how to spend our time. Ideally we spend it wisely doing our best and making a difference every day. If we don't, the time is lost to us forever. It is that simple and that important.

Here is a quote from Emily Dickinson to leave you with—“If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain; If I can ease one life the aching, or cool one pain, or help one fainting robin onto his nest again, I shall not live in vain.”

Spirituality.com Host: This has been a wonderful and inspiring event...and you all have had great questions. Thanks to all of you…and thanks so much John for your time and ideas. This has been terrific. Have a great day everyone…the transcript will be on the site soon!

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